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Transcript: John Kirby on “Face the Nation,” Dec. 3, 2023

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The following is a transcript of an interview with National Security Council spokesperson John Kirby that aired on Dec. 3, 2023.


MARGARET BRENNAN: And we’re back with the coordinator for Strategic Communications at the White House National Security Council, John Kirby. Always good to have you here. 

COORDINATOR FOR STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL, JOHN KIRBY: Thank you, Margaret. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask you about this breakdown in the hostage negotiations. The Mossad has pulled their negotiators out of Doha, saying that there’s no use in continuing to talk. Is this insurmountable? There are still Americans being held.

KIRBY: We don’t believe it’s insurmountable. In fact, even while the negotiations have stopped, Margaret, we haven’t stopped our efforts on the National Security Council and according- and all the way up to the President, trying to work hour by hour to see if we can get this pause reinstated and get those hostages out. I will say, while the pause has been lifted, and no hostage exchanges are going on, what is still going on, importantly, is humanitarian assistance getting in including- including fuel, which is- which is critical.

MARGARET BRENNAN: It wasn’t- it’s restarted, you’re saying.

KIRBY: Yeah, so even when the pause ended, what didn’t end was humanitarian assistance.

MARGARET BRENNAN: We heard from your old boss, the Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, there in the beginning of the program, and he said that the lesson he learned from the ISIS campaign was that in urban warfare, you have to protect civilians. He was pretty sharp in his words, he said he has pushed Israeli leaders to avoid civilian casualties, shun irresponsible rhetoric, prevent violence by settlers in the West Bank. It certainly sounds like the Netanyahu government has not made the changes that they have been asked to make for the past few weeks. 

KIRBY: They have been receptive to those messages, those messages that he delivered in public, we are also delivering in private. They have been–

MARGARET BRENNAN: For three weeks or more now, including on this program, 

KIRBY: They have been receptive to those messages. Now, again, I want to make it clear, the right number of civilian casualties is zero. And clearly, many thousands have been killed, and many more thousands have been wounded. And now more than a million are internally displaced. We’re aware of that. And we know that all of that is a tragedy. We grieve with all those families. That’s why we continue to work, as Secretary Austin said, with our Israeli counterparts, to get them to be as careful and as precise and as deliberate in their targeting as possible. And I would tell you, as I said, they have been receptive, they went into North Gaza with a much smaller force than what they had originally planned to do. And here you have–

MARGARET BRENNAN: Because the United States slowed down those operations. 

KIRBY: And if you have in the last 24 hours, they have been putting a map online of places where people in Gaza need to avoid and need to go. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: They don’t have connectivity widely in Gaza, you know that.

KIRBY: But they’ve also been doing it with paper and leaflets and that kind of thing. But my point is, Margaret, that it’s very rare for a modern military to take those kinds of steps, basically telegraphing their punches before they actually conduct operations. So I think they’re listening. I think they’re receptive. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: But you’re continuing to deliver this message at pretty high levels, including the Vice President is saying this, that- that number, you say thousands, the Gaza Ministry of Health says it’s over 15,000 people who have been killed since October 7. Does the U.S.- have- had- U.S. have an assessment of civilians?

KIRBY: We don’t have a specific number that we can speak to, we know many, many thousands have been- have been killed. And again, many, many thousands more had been wounded. But we don’t have an exact figure.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, Hamas when it attacked, so brutally, on October 7, you were very strong. You reflected the President’s emotion on this, his defense of the Netanyahu government. But Senator Van Hollen who was on this program recently faulted you. I want you to listen to it.

SOT: Many of us were concerned, just a few weeks ago, when one of the White House National Security spokesperson was asked if the United States has any red lines. And the answer was no, which means anything goes and that cannot be consistent with American interests and American values.

MARGARET BRENNAN: He’s talking about what you said October 24 from the podium. That’s a Democrat saying they need clear language from the White House.

KIRBY: But everything we do for a foreign military, including Israel, when you give them security assistance, there are expectations with that security assistance, that it’s going to be used in keeping with a law of armed conflict, the law of war and we are in constant touch with our Israeli counterparts about the way that they’re prosecuting these operations. Secretary Blinken has said himself, it’s not just what you do that matters. It’s how you do that. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: But are their red lines?

KIRBY: We believe that the approach that we’ve been taking, Margaret, has had an effect. It has allowed Israel to continue to go after a very viable terrorist threat to their existence. And at the same time–

(CROSSTALK)

MARGARET BRENNAN: But you’re correcting (unintelligible) correct course, are there red lines? Because what we’re seeing right now as the Journal was just reporting, I mean, bunker buster bombs, 2000-pound bombs being handed over. The United States is a really strong supporter of Israel here. Should there be brighter lines?

KIRBY: We are having these discussions with our Israeli counterparts every day about being careful, precise and deliberate in their targeting and trying to minimize civilian casualties to the maximum extent possible. I think it’s also important for people to remember what they’re up against here. Hamas deliberately shelters themselves inside residential buildings, hospitals and schools. Basically on purpose, putting civilians in the line of fire and what Israel is trying to do is get them out of the line of fire. So it’s an added burden that Israel has as a modern military, we recognize that, but it’s also a very difficult burden and obstacle for them to overcome. So look, we’re- we don’t want to see a single more innocent life taken here, but- and so we’re going to continue to work with- with Israel about this, but the approach that we’ve been taking has delivered some results, including more than 100 hostages getting out.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right, but you understand the implications for U.S. national security, to be seen as endorsing all of this, which is what Van Hollen was raising, but I want to ask you about Venezuela as well, before I let you go, the U.S. lifted some sanctions off the Maduro regime and set some goals. November 30, there were supposed to be three Americans who are determined to be wrongfully detained, released. That didn’t happen. 

KIRBY: No, it didn’t. Nor did the release of other political prisoners. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: Exactly. So what happens now? Will you put more sanctions on? What is the status of those Americans?

KIRBY: I don’t want to get ahead of where we are in the decision making process, but we’re reviewing our options right now. They- they had until the evening of the 30 to- to make these kinds of decisions. Unfortunately, they didn’t. And so we’re now going back to- to the- to policy options and reviewing what our chances are, but I don’t want to get ahead– 

MARGARET BRENNAN: Including snapback sanctions?

KIRBY: Again, I don’t want to get ahead of where we are, but we were extremely concerned that they didn’t take those two extra steps: release of political prisoners and getting our wrongfully detained Americans home. That’s something we take very seriously, getting those folks home, and we’re going to keep at it.

MARGARET BRENNAN: All right, admiral. Thank you for being here in person.

KIRBY: Good to be with you. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be right back.



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Supreme Court releases new case order list amid rumors about justices’ futures

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Woman accusing Conor McGregor of rape was found “very bruised” after alleged attack, paramedic tells court

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A woman accusing renowned cage fighter Conor McGregor of raping her in a civil lawsuit in Ireland was found “very bruised” immediately after the alleged attack, a paramedic who treated her has told the High Court in Dublin. 

Nikita Hand claims McGregor assaulted and raped her inside a Dublin hotel room in December 2018. 

McGregor, a flamboyant mixed martial artist who was once a world champion and one of the highest paid athletes on the planet, has denied all of the accusations.

Ireland McGregor Lawsuit
Conor McGregor gestures as he leaves the High Court in Dublin, Ireland Wednesday, Nov. 6, 2024. 

Brian Lawless / AP


“I haven’t seen someone so bruised, with that intensity of bruising,” paramedic Eithne Scully told the Irish court, according to CBS News partner network BBC News, which had a journalist in the courtroom. 

Scully said Hand had a cut on her chin and bruising around her lower neck, as well as on her chest, legs, buttocks and thighs. 

The jury was shown video of Hand as she was treated by Scully that showed some of her injuries, the BBC said.

The Irish High Court began hearing testimony in the civil case last week. Under Irish law, neither the accuser nor the accused has a right to anonymity in civil cases, unlike criminal prosecutions.

Irish state broadcaster RTÉ reported that Hand had previously pursued criminal charges against McGregor in 2020, but that the Director of Public Prosecutions had declined to take up the case, determining there was no reasonable prospect of convicting McGregor.

Appearing in the witness box last week, Hand said she had been at a Christmas party at a Dublin hotel in 2018, during which she drank alcohol and took cocaine with McGregor, according to RTÉ. Hand told the court that McGregor forced her down onto a bed in the penthouse suite of the hotel and that she could not breathe at the time. 

She bit him, she said, and he then allegedly wrapped his arm around her neck and choked her three times. Hand told the court she thought she was going to die and would never see her daughter again.

Hand said she then let McGregor do “whatever he needed to do” so that she could survive, at which point he raped her, according to RTÉ’s account of her testimony.

Hand was accused of spreading “a web of lies” by McGregor’s defense team last week under cross-examination. 

BBC News said McGregor’s lawyers accused Hand of attempting extortion with the civil case. Remy Farrell, the defense counsel for McGregor, said Hand had told her then-boyfriend in the days after the alleged attack that McGregor had threatened to kill her. 

Farrell said Hand had omitted this detail in her police interviews and pressed her on whether the claim was true. 

“Is that something that happened or didn’t?” Farrell asked her in court, according to the BBC. Hand told the court she could not recall if she had said that to her boyfriend at the time.

McGregor has faced previous sexual assault allegations in the United States. In October 2023, the State Attorney’s Office of Miami said it would not pursue criminal charges against McGregor after a woman accused him of attempting to force her to perform oral sex on him after an NBA finals game between Miami Heat and the Denver Nuggets. 

He has also previously faced criminal charges in the U.S. for alleged assault and criminal mischief.



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Loyalty the theme for Trump administration choices so far

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President-elect Donald Trump has been busy making staffing choices for his incoming administration, focusing on people who have shown loyalty to him. CBS News senior White House correspondent Weijia Jiang has more.

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