The following is a transcript of an interview with Sen. Joe Manchin, Democrat of West Virginia, that aired on Jan. 14, 2024.

MARGARET BRENNAN: We’re joined by West Virginia Senator Joe Manchin. Senator, good to have you here–

SENATOR JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): Good to be with you, Margaret.

MARGARET BRENNAN: –in person. You’ve known Joe Biden for a very long time, you’ve known Donald Trump. What does Biden need to do to reverse this trend?

SEN. MANCHIN: Well, I think basically speaking to the American people on what has been accomplished, what they want to accomplish, mistakes they’ve made, and how they’re going to correct them. People just want to know the truth. You know, if you made a mistake, say, hey, we made a mistake, we tried something and it didn’t work out. I think they moved too far to the left, they need to come back to the center or center left. That’s where America is. America is between the center, center left, center right. That’s where most of the voters are. And that’s where the decisions on who’s going to be elected. That’s what’s going to happen. It’s not going to happen from the extremes. But we’re playing off of the extremes. That’s what people are just worn out. Enough is enough.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, and you’ve said enough for you, you are leaving Congress, but–

SEN. MANCHIN: Right, I’ve tried everything I could. I’m going on my 14th year, and I’ve done everything I can tell you, we cannot fix–

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, you haven’t tried everything, you know that question. 

SEN. MANCHIN: Well, we cannot fix it in Washington, it won’t be fixed. Because the business model. And that’s what my daughter Heather and I have put together Americans Together. And the reason for that is trying to give people hope in the middle, that they have a voice and a place to go. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, you said you’re trying to travel the country and suss out this moderate group. Where- where do you direct them? What do you- do you have the (INAUDIBLE) nomination, or endorsement–

SEN. MANCHIN: Well right now, this is- this is not- this is not a short game, this is a long game, right? If you’re going to get- it- it’s a character, the person you send to Washington, who you’re voting for, and within your state, or your district, and if that person has the character, the where they put, they put their country before their party, they put their service before themself, all these types of things, and people can detect that. But they have to get that person in the game. And right now, with the gerrymandering, the way it’s controlled, you get 383, 390 districts already cooked. You’ve got the whole thing as far as the primaries, and how you could change those to more of a majority primary, an open primary, if you will. It gets the person doesn’t have the political backing maybe, or the fund- financing, but has the best character and the best ideas, gives them a chance. There’s many ways that can be done. But it has to be really pushed from the outside. The business model in Washington is too darn good for the Democrat and Republican parties. They’re doing too good. They’re getting rewarded for bad behavior. And too much money’s coming in.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You’re trying to push President Biden towards the middle.

SEN. MANCHIN: Love to.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You- you’ve said he’s been pulled so far to the left, to the extreme left, as far as liberal, makes no sense at all. It’s not the person we thought was going to bring the country together. That’s pretty harshly critical.

SEN. MANCHIN: Well, I’m, I’m making–

MARGARET BRENNAN: Are you gonna vote for him?

SEN. MANCHIN: –it’s constructive criticism. Let me- let me make very clear. I love my country too much to vote for Donald Trump. I love my country too much. And I think it would be very detrimental to my country. I want to make sure that people have a choice, but also understanding the person with a character in this. And that’s- we have to see what happens on Super Tuesday, I think by then you’re going to know who’s in the game, where we stand.

MARGARET BRENNAN: By March, and you expect (INAUDIBLE) to enter the race?

SEN. MANCHIN: I think- I think, no, I think that we’ll find out, you just have to find out what’s going on. If there’s a movement, if there’s a movement for third party, I think is what you’re asking about, can that movement make a difference? I’m not going to be a spoiler, never have been and never will be. But people want options, or they want change. So we got to see what comes, and by then I think things will hopefully sort itself out.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So you’re not closing the door on running yourself?

(LAUGHTER)

MARGARET BRENNAN: You get asked this question all the time.

SEN. MANCHIN: I’m going to do everything I can to save my country. And I’ll do whatever it takes. And I’ll help whoever. And I’ll support whoever that I think can best help this country come back to this common sense, sensible middle, which is center left, center right, working together with a majority. You can’t govern from extremes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You said the President could fix mistakes. What’s the mistake you think he’s making? 

SEN. MANCHIN: Well I think the border, the border has to be fixed. And you know, what if Congress–

MARGARET BRENNAN:There are talks in the Senate to do just that–

SEN. MANCHIN: I know.

MARGARET BRENNAN: –are you on board with what the White House is proposing?

SEN. MANCHIN: I- Margaret, I agree with you. We were told before Christmas, we’re going to stay here and get this done. Then all of a sudden, okay, you can go home now, because we’re getting some language done now but we’re writing, putting- putting pen to it. We’re going to come back and as soon as we come back, that was last week, we’ll have something. Now this is the second week. This is the greatest crisis we’re facing right now is the border, and it’s dangerous. And if Congress cannot do its job, because the perfect is the enemy, the good is just not perfect enough for the Democrats or Republicans, or it’s gone too far or not far enough, the President has to step forward and declare an emergency. I don’t believe there should be any more paroles at the border until we can get a handle on what’s going on. And it is- it’s just extremely bad right now.

MARGARET BRENNAN: We have to take a break. But I want to follow up on what you just said, is I think you just said the president needs to take executive action. So let’s let you finish that.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to Face The Nation. We want to pick up where we left off with Senator Manchin. Manchin- Senator, before the break you were saying you think the President needs to do more on the border. The President did say this weekend, he wants to make maj- major changes. He has negotiations going on. Are you saying put aside that deal and just take an executive action?

SEN. MANCHIN: I’m saying put a deadline, if it doesn’t happen this week. This is such a crisis, and it’s a dangerous crisis at the border. The president might have to take executive actions. The current crisis, national crisis and national crisis at the border and do what needs to be done to shut that border down and secure it until we can get a hand- or until legislature, the legislature can come to an agreement. But leaving it open, thinking that we’re all going to be Kumbaya and it’s all going to come together is not the prudent course to take, I believe.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So you think he needs to get more directly involved, because this is what Republicans say, has to get done to unlock Ukraine and Israel and Taiwan aid.

SEN. MANCHIN: I’m just saying by- the crisis at the border is the greatest crisis we face in America, the dangerous crisis that we’re facing now. And I believe very strongly that border needs to be secured and secured, close it down. If you can’t get a pathway that legislature agrees on. I think this week would be a deadline because we were told before Christmas, it would be done. We were told, come back, it will be done. Now the second week of coming back and it’s still not done and who knows. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: You are on the Armed Services Committee. As of this morning, Secretary of Defense is still in the hospital. We learned he- this week he’s receiving treatment for prostate cancer. He’s been in the hospital since January 1, the President didn’t find out about the cancer diagnosis until we were told, January 9. A democratic congressman, Seth Moulton, former Marine, says this is a break down the chain of command. Austin should be fired. Do you agree?

SEN. MANCHIN: Well there’s- there’s definitely been a breakdown. We need to find out more on the facts and we will this week, we’re supposed to be briefed on that this week to find exactly what happened. But let me just say, my- my prayers are with Lloyd Austin and his family for his speedy recovery and full recovery. Here’s a man who’s dedicated his entire life to defense of our country. If a mistake was made, we can fix that. Was there a breakdown? And basically it was we were left rudderless? I don’t believe so. But we’ll find out. Decisions can be made later. But you don’t change right now, and you don’t throw a person out that has dedicated his entire life and done a good job of giving everything he has to it. He said he’s- he made a mistake, he shouldn’t have done it. Okay. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. President Biden said it was a lapse in judgment.

SEN. MANCHIN: Most certainly. Okay. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: But in terms of national security, the fact that there seems to be this confusion or lack of communication with the White House by the Pentagon, does that trouble you?

SEN. MANCHIN: Well let me just say this, we saw the- the attacks on the Houthis back. Okay, that’s been a coalition being put together, that took coordination. Somebody’s still operating okay, even in this lapse that we see. But before I’m going to draw a fire on that or make a decision, I want to see the rest- the rest of the facts and is corrections being made? And is it been there for some time, and it just happened to come up- come up at this time when a person who’s very private, made a mistake, thought he had a very simple procedure, or it wasn’t as serious as it turned out to be? So we can fix all that. But here again, his health and well being is what I’m most concerned about, and his dedication to our country. I think we owe something to make sure we have the facts before we put politics. Politics is always going to ask, though for someone’s head, always does. And this toxic atmosphere is what people don’t like anymore.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah.

SEN. MANCHIN: So just have some civility to how we handle- handle ourselves and our concerns we have for people

MARGARET BRENNAN: We are definitely for civility. Senator, you’re welcome back anytime. 

SEN. MANCHIN: Thank you, Margaret. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be right back.