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Transcript: Sen. Mark Warner on “Face the Nation,” April 21, 2024
The following is a transcript of an interview with Sen. Mark Warner, Democrat of Virginia, that aired on April 21, 2024.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We begin today with the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Mark Warner. Good morning, and good to have you here.
SENATOR MARK WARNER (D-VA): Thank you, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So- Senator $61 billion in aid to Ukraine, about 60% of that stays as an investment into the US industrial base, as I understand it. President Zelenskyy said this morning on another network, it’s important that they get crucial long range artillery, like attack comms, is that what this money will pay for? And if so, when will they actually get them?
SEN. WARNER: Well,the great news is, this is finally happening. It should have happened six months ago. The next best time is right now, this week. We’ve seen the Ukrainians overperform. If you step back for a moment and think about the fact that for most of my life, most of America’s defense forces were focused on Russia. Now and the last two years, with less than 3% of our defense budget, two years running, with the Ukrainians have eliminated 87% of the Russians pre existing ground forces, 63% of their tanks, 32% of their armored personnel carriers, without a single American soldier lost, because of the courage of the Ukrainians, and the equipment they’ve received from us, and from our European allies. Getting this additional equipment as quickly as possible- I hope once this gets to the President by Tuesday or Wednesday, that these shipments will be literally launched with that longer range ATACM–
MARGARET BRENNAN
— By next week?
SEN. WARNER: I hope once the President signs, we’ve been told that there is it is the President signature, making sure Congress does its job that these materials will be in transit by the end of the week. And on that schedule, what it will do is it’s clearly been the case that the Ukrainians morale has been great, but it’s been undermined over the last couple of months, when they have been literally given out rationed bullets, eight to 10 bullets a day. And on artillery shells, Russians ten to one, you can’t underestimate that Ukrainians’ grit, determination, but if they don’t have the materials, they can’t carry this fight to the Russians.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Will they get those long range artillery?
SEN. WARNER: Yes
MARGARET BRENNAN: Not just ammunition?
SEN. WARNER: The ATACMS- I believe the administration was prepared over the last couple of months to prepare or to provide ATACMS. It is written into this legislation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Gotcha. So you talked about rebuilding the industrial base and what this does, okay. According to the State Department, China has helped Russia rebuild its defense industrial base, which has an impact on the battlefield as well here. How have they been able to just blow through US sanctions or defy them to help the Russians, who are fighting Ukraine?
SEN. WARNER: Well, if we look back again, I think we would all acknowledge that the sanctions regime has not been as tight, as we like to see. China being the worst offender with direct military support. India, a country I’m very supportive of, but India in terms of purchasing Russian oil and giving that hard currency to Russia, for them to go out into the marketplace and acquire arms. It’s one of the reasons why I think this package, which the House just passed, we will take up this week, that says, we have to be ready to be prepared for our national security interests, not only in Ukraine and Russia, also in terms of military assistance to Israel, but with additional humanitarian aid for the Palestinians who are in such great challenges. And there’s about eight or $9 billion for the Indo Pacific region because of the concern that we have about China’s aggressiveness towards Taiwan. Clearly, the Chinese linkage to Russia, combined with the fact that the Iranians are- are providing drones, for example, for Russia and the outlier nation, North Korea. I know the terminology used to be Axis of Evil, this may be the 2024 Axis of Evil combination of nations.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And Speaker Johnson has used that language. One of the other things that the House voted to do was move this TikTok bill through. So this would force the Chinese own parent company ByteDance, to divest it- to sell it, but they have the better part of a year to do so. The Chinese government says they’re not going to allow that. ByteDance doesn’t want to sell it. So if this just gets stuck in the courts isn’t the reality that TikTok is not going away?
SEN. WARNER: Well, what we’ve done and I’ve been arguing this case for well, over a year, I had a broad bipartisan bill that said, let’s look at these, not just Chinese, Chinese, Russian technology companies in a broader basis where they have a day in court, but if they pose national security risks, I mean, a couple years back, it was the Chinese telecom company Huawei. We- many American telcos bought them and we’re now spending American taxpayer dollars to rip those equipment out because there are national security risks. Huawei- I- TikTok, 170 million Americans a day, 90 minutes a day–
MARGARET BRENNAN: — Right.
SEN. WARNER: That’s frankly, more than the power of eyes that your network reaches on a daily basis. And that information and many young people on TikTok get their news, the idea that we would give the Communist Party this much of a propaganda tool as well as the ability to scrape 170 million American- million Americans personal data, it is a national security risk.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It is a national security risk, according to US intelligence community, that has a direct impact potentially on US elections. TikTok accounts–
SEN. WARNER: — On US elections this year–
MARGARET BRENNAN: — Yeah- targeted candidates from both political parties during the midterm cycle in 2022. That’s the Worldwide Threat Assessment–
SEN. WARNER:– This is a–
MARGARET BRENNAN: — TikTok is not going away before November.
SEN. WARNER:–Well, here is the–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –so that means it’s an active threat.
SEN. WARNER: There is plenty of creativity on TikTok, there are people that make their living off of TikTok as social influencers. I don’t want that to go away. I simply want to make sure that the individuals pulling the strings are not ultimately functionaries of the Communist Party of China.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I understand, But even with this significant bill, the timeline is such that it doesn’t take it away as a risk for the election. And it seems the US government is so limited in so many ways when it comes to these election influence efforts.
SEN. WARNER: The timeline of giving– this committee a complicated transaction, to give it up to a full year, I think just from a business standpoint, makes sense. The one thing we do have in place, and I’m not putting a whole lot of solace in this but I was at the Munich Security Conference earlier in the year ear when all 20 of the major social media companies, including Tik Tok, including Twitter, X, including Facebook, Google, Amazon, you name it, they have all said they would have a voluntary agreement about disinformation and misinformation and elections because with artificial intelligence, the ability for people to see this our images here, maybe having words that we don’t speak-
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
SEN. WARNER: Is out- scare the dickens out of all of us. And the truth is, you know, these 20 companies have a guaranteed voluntary agreement, they’ll take on watermarking, which will indicate it ultra-ultra content, be willing to take this content down, but the proof is gonna be in the pudding. The parliamentary elections in Europe start in less than 60 days. So we are going along with our European partners to say all right, companies you promised, show us what you’re doing.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So this other measure that was approved as well, Section 702, it’s a key surveillance tool, was reauthorized for two years instead of five. Take a listen to what the CIA director told my colleague Norah O’Donnell Friday about how his agency is using this authority.
[START SOUND ON TAPE]
BILL BURNS, DIRECTOR OF THE CIA: It’s reauthorization, its passage, I think, is a crucial tool to fight fentanyl because something like 70% of all the successful disruptions of fentanyl traffic moving into the United States that we’ve been a part of have come directly from intelligence derived from 702.
[END SOUND ON TAPE]
MARGARET BRENNAN: So these changes to 702. How does it help fight the trafficking of fentanyl? What difference is there?
SEN. WARNER: Let’s remember what 702 is. It is the ability for the United States government to surveil, listen in, on non Americans foreigners who are abroad. And many times the fentanyl drug cartels are being run out of Mexico, many times supplied with basic goods out of China. And this ability to listen in on the bad guys’ communications is extraordinarily powerful. Matter of fact, the President gets a daily brief of all of the intelligence hotspots around the world. Sixty percent, Sixty percent, of what he reads each day, is material that comes out of the 702 program. Now, let me be clear, there have been times in the past where particularly the FBI didn’t even follow its own rules on making sure that a foreign individual, foreign terrorist that might be talking to American, that we put appropriate protections on that American
MARGARET BRENNAN: That led to some of this Republican criticism.
SEN. WARNER: What independent of some of the debate on the bill, and I was proud to be, as chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, the person leading the charge on the bill. But five years ago, the FBI itself was screwing up on 30% of their queries, just meeting their own criteria. We put in place reforms. The screw up level has dropped from about 30% to less than 1%. We put requirements so that you can no longer do batch queries. We got to make sure FBI agents have to show a national security purpose. If a journalist or a political figure or a religious figure, were even to be query- query about, you have to get approval from me, the director, the deputy director, or head, the National Security Division. We think we’ve got a very strong reform bill. It’s why it passed the Senate 60 to 33. And- but I also need to say that the- the folks who are against this, they have- they have a right. We need to have the kind of strict oversight. We need to constantly be wary of the government’s misuse or overuse of these tools. And I think we had a good spirited debate on Friday night.
MARGARET BRENNAN All right, Senator, so much to talk to you about good to have you here in person.
SEN. WARNER: Thank you, Margaret.
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Whistleblowers claim insurance companies shortchanged some Florida homeowners after Hurricane Ian
On Thursday night, Hurricane Helene and its 140 mile an hour winds made landfall in Florida’s Big Bend region. It was deadly. The full extent of the damage won’t be known for weeks and residents know rebuilding after the storm is likely to be as daunting as the storm itself.
It’s been two years since Hurricane Ian hit Southwest Florida and an estimated 50 thousand homeowners are still locked in battles with their insurance companies. Tonight, you will hear from insurance insiders who say after years of diligently paying premiums, homeowners are being misled by their insurance carriers. The whistleblowers, who are all licensed adjusters, tell us after Hurricane Ian, several insurance carriers were using altered damage reports to deceive customers.
As Hurricane Ian slammed into Florida with 150 mile an hour winds, Jeff Rapkin took this video from the porch of his home… about 40 miles south of Sarasota.
Jeff Rapkin: (on recording): “All the trees are coming down… they don’t normally look like this, everything’s coming apart… My name is Jeff Rapkin, I live in North Port, Florida…”
Rapkin, an adoption attorney and his wife, Ginny, raised three children in this home and weathered more than a half dozen hurricanes inside it. But Ian, they say, was different.
Jeff Rapkin: It just– it sat above our heads. It wouldn’t move. I mean, it was a nightmare.
Sharyn Alfonsi: And it went on for how long?
Jeff Rapkin: Eleven hours.
Sharyn Alfonsi: Eleven hours.
Jeff Rapkin: It felt like the hurricane was inside the house. We couldn’t keep the windows closed.
60 Minutes
That is the Rapkin’s house. A neighbor just happened to be filming when their steel roof was ripped off. When the storm finally passed, the Rapkins could see clear skies through the new hole Hurricane Ian punched in their ceiling. There were trees on and around their house, the roof was shredded, and everything inside was soaked.
The Rapkins lined up their losses on the curb and called their insurance company, Heritage, to begin the claims process. It sent a licensed adjuster to the house to assess the damage.
Sharyn Alfonsi: Did you get the feeling, speaking to him and showing him around the property, that he understood —
Virginia Rapkin: Oh yeah.
Jeff Rapkin: Yeah.
Sharyn Alfonsi: — what was happening here, that this —
Virginia Rapkin: Oh yeah.
Sharyn Alfonsi: — was serious?
Jeff Rapkin: He was really nice. He was thorough and he said, “your house is probably gonna need to be completely rebuilt.”
Which is why the Rapkins were floored when they finally got a check from their insurance company three months later.
Jeff Rapkin: They sent us a report from the adjustor which said that it would cost $15,000 to put our home back to pre-hurricane conditions.
Sharyn Alfonsi: They sent you $15,000?
Jeff Rapkin: $15,000. And so– the– the deductible was taken out, so it was $10,000 dollars. And then our public adjuster took $1,000 out, so we had $9.
Sharyn Alfonsi: When you called and said, “$9,000? Are you kidding me?” What was the reaction?
Jeff Rapkin: The reaction was– “This is the decision we’ve made.” And I started to pray for– for Mr.– Jordan Lee’s untimely demise because I was so angry.
We found Mr. Jordan Lee… very much alive.
60 Minutes
Sharyn Alfonsi: Do you remember the Rapkin family?
Jordan Lee: Yes, ma’am.
Lee is the adjuster who went to the Rapkin’s home after the storm.
Sharyn Alfonsi: What do you remember about them?
Jordan Lee: Their property, a two-story home, metal roof that was blown off by Hurricane Ian. And the interior of the home was just– it was soaked.
Jordan Lee has been a licensed adjuster in Florida since 2017. After major disasters, most insurance companies use third-party firms who hire adjusters, like Lee, to help them with the thousands of claims.
Lee says after he assesses a home, he always leaves his cellphone number with the homeowners so they can call him if they have any questions. After Hurricane Ian, homeowners did.
Sharyn Alfonsi: What were they sayin’?
Jordan Lee: Cussin’ me out left and right, up and down. You know, “how could you do this to us?” It was really bad, actually. And out of the– the– thousands of claims that I’ve handled, I’ve never had phone calls like that.
Confused, he went back to compare the damage report he wrote for the Rapkins to the one the insurance company sent to them.
Sharyn Alfonsi: That’s your work?
Jordan Lee: Correct.
Sharyn Alfonsi: And this is what they were given?
Jordan Lee: Totally different. Totally different.
Sharyn Alfonsi: You said they needed a new roof.
Jordan Lee: I did.
Sharyn Alfonsi: And this report says what?
Jordan Lee: It reads as a repair.
Sharyn Alfonsi: Was that roof able to be repaired in your opinion?
Jordan Lee: Not in my opinion, no.
Later, Jordan Lee learned a desk adjuster – who’d never been to the Rapkin’s home – had deleted entire sections of his report… but left his name and his license number on it – making it look like his work.
Sharyn Alfonsi: Did anybody ever alert you, “Hey, we’re making a change to this report”?
Jordan Lee: No. Nobody told me. The only way that I knew was the homeowner calling me.
It is standard procedure for field adjusters to collaborate with those back in the office to make minor edits. But Jordan Lee says, that is not what happened with the Rapkin’s report.
Sharyn Alfonsi: Did you put a dollar amount on how much you thought they were owed?
Jordan Lee: $231,368.57.
Sharyn Alfonsi: What did the insurance carrier come up with?
Jordan Lee: $15,469.48. So uh, quite a bit of difference.
Sharyn Alfonsi: Mmm. That’s not a difference of opinion.
Jordan Lee: No.
Jordan Lee says as he dug further into his work from Hurricane Ian… he was stunned to discover the Rapkins weren’t the only family whose report was altered.
Jordan Lee: It was basically all of ’em. I mean, I handled 46 of them. 44 of them were changed.
Sharyn Alfonsi: Were any of your reports changed to give the policy owner more money?
Jordan Lee: No.
Sharyn Alfonsi: It was always down?
Jordan Lee: It was always down.
Down… by as much as 98%. One estimate he wrote for $488 thousand was changed to $13 thousand. another, from 239 to 3 thousand. On December 13th, 2022…
Jordan Lee (at hearing): “My name is Jordan Lee. I’m an independent insurance adjuster and I work for the insurance companies.”
Jordan Lee and two other adjusters testified to Florida lawmakers about what one watchdog group called “systematic criminal fraud” by the insurance companies.
Ben Mandell (at hearing): “The scheme was repeated over and over again, not only on my estimates but on estimates written by other adjustors.”
Ben Mandell has been a licensed adjuster since 2017. He did not work for Heritage but says 18 of the 20 reports he wrote for another carrier after Hurricane Ian were altered. And he says he, and other adjusters, were instructed by some of their managers to leave damage off reports.
Ben Mandell: It was a deliberate scheme to do this. And it wasn’t just with one carrier doin’ this. This was six carriers that we discovered were doing this in the State of Florida, they all got the memo.
Sharyn Alfonsi: Which was?
Ben Mandell: Which was, “we’re not going to replace roofs, asphalt shingle roofs. We’re not going to replace them, we’re going to repair them.”
Mandell says he refused to leave off roofs.
Ben Mandell: They were asking me to do something that was illegal.
Sharyn Alfonsi: And why was it illegal?
Ben Mandell: It’s illegal because when I go out to make a damage estimate, I have to put what the damage is, not what they want the damage to be. And so if I leave something off that’s supposed to be on there, I could be prosecuted for that.
Sharyn Alfonsi: So the company’s telling you, “Leave the roofs off, we’re not paying for roofs.” But you keep writing these–
Ben Mandell: That’s correct.
Sharyn Alfonsi: — roofs into your reports.
Ben Mandell: I wrote the way they’re supposed to be.
Sharyn Alfonsi: And you get fired.
Ben Mandell: And I got fired.
Now, Ben Mandell and five other whistleblower adjusters are represented by attorney Steven Bush. Bush worked as a public adjuster for more than a decade.
Steven Bush: What the carriers are doing, in some instances, what they’ve said was, “if the policyholder needs a new roof, then we’re gonna make them make us pay.” In other words, “File a lawsuit, and then we’ll pay you for your roof.”
60 Minutes
Sharyn Alfonsi: But unless they do that, they’re not getting their roof paid for?
Steven Bush: They’re not getting it, they’re not getting it. Most people will not stand up and fight. I cannot tell you how many people come to me and say, “hey, what was I gonna do? I had to replace my roof.”
Sharyn Alfonsi: And do you think the insurance companies know that? They’re betting on —
Steven Bush: Absolutely.
Sharyn Alfonsi: — that those people are just gonna roll over?
Steven Bush: No question they know that. They’re playing the odds and they are winning.
Florida’s insurance market has been a risky gamble for years. After a decade of costly storms, several national carriers exited Florida. Smaller, regional carriers stepped in… but not all were up to the job. Since 2021, at least nine insurance companies in Florida have collapsed and some of the remaining ones, Steven Bush says, altered damage reports.
Sharyn Alfonsi: And is it just in Florida?
Steven Bush: I now have evidence in six different states of where carriers are manipulating the estimates, changing them, and then misrepresenting to policyholders that it’s the work product of the field adjuster.
Sharyn Alfonsi: And did, most times, the policyowner have any idea?
Steven Bush: Policyowner has no clue.
Doug Quinn: Yeah, there’s almost no transparency in the claims process.
60 Minutes
Doug Quinn is the executive director of the American Policyholders Association, an advocacy group he started after his home was destroyed by Hurricane Sandy in 2012.
Doug Quinn: The victims of insurer fraud are the last people to find out that they were victims of insurer fraud.
Sharyn Alfonsi: So when the insurance carriers say, look, it’s our right, we’re allowed to go back in there and do what we want to these adjuster reports, you would say?
Doug Quinn: You are not allowed to take somebody who has dutifully paid premiums for years, and when they need their insurance, cheat them. And shave 70%, 80%, or 90% off their claim. You are not allowed to do that. You are allowed to disagree with, you know, the minutiae. But coming in to that degree and faking the facts on a claim is not acceptable and there should be legal consequences for that.
Steven Bush: If you really want to see change in the industry, put somebody in handcuffs.
Attorney Steven Bush says he turned over what he says is evidence of insurer fraud to state investigators and Florida opened a criminal investigation. but two years after the storm, Florida has made no arrests.
Sharyn Alfonsi: We know fraud’s investigated all the time when it comes to homeowners, right? You know, that if you put–
Doug Quinn: And contractors–
Sharyn Alfonsi: –a false claim–
Doug Quinn: –and public adjusters. Everybody’s who’s aligned with the consumer who costs the insurance industry money. Those cases get investigated and prosecuted rather quickly. And aggressively. All we are asking is that cases that are alleged to be perpetrated by the insurance carriers or the vendors that they hire are just as aggressively investigated and prosecuted when fraud is found.
Quinn says it’s difficult to know how many policyholders may have been given less money than they were owed. But two years after the storm, every unrepaired home and tarp tells a story. At the Rapkins, mold and mother nature are gnawing away at what’s left of their home. And upstairs?
Sharyn Alfonis (in attic): Oh, well, there’s the sky! This isn’t a hole, this is a crack down the middle of your house, I can put my whole arm up through here.
That split roof is an open wound for the Rapkins, who still have to mow the lawn and make mortgage payments on their rotting home every month. They’re also paying rent on an apartment nearby and $4,000 a year to Heritage for home insurance.
Sharyn Alfonsi: And you’re still paying?
Jeff Rapkin: I’m still paying.
Virginia Rapkin: Oh, yeah.
Jeff Rapkin: The premiums went up. (laugh) So we’re still paying– we’re still paying and the premiums went up. And I can’t get another insurance company, obviously.
Jeff and Ginny Rapkin filed a lawsuit against heritage accusing it of breach of contract and fraud.
In a statement to “60 Minutes,” Heritage said it couldn’t comment on specific policyholders but aims to “pay every eligible claim” and had no intention to deceive. The company says, in its own random sample, about 42% of damage reports were revised downward and 26% were revised upward.
Heritage says that since Hurricane Ian, it has made “many reforms,” including updating its claims processing software, which it blames for not including the names of desk adjusters who altered reports.
Sharyn Alfonsi: Do you think that was a mis– like, just an innocent mistake?
Jeff Rapkin: Originally I did. I said, “Oh, maybe they made an error.”
Sharyn Alfonsi: And what do you think now?
Jeff Rapkin: I think they did it on purpose. And I think people are getting letters that say they’re not covered when they are. This is a con. That’s what this is. This is: make them go away at all costs. We’re not paying.
Prior to 60 Minutes’ Sept. 29, 2024 broadcast, which featured correspondent Sharyn Alfonsi’s report on Florida insurance, we reached out to Heritage Insurance for comment on our story, “After the Hurricane.” The company responded to 60 Minutes with the following statement:
Produced by Oriana Zill de Granados. Associate producers, Emily Gordon and Kit Ramgopal. Broadcast associate, Erin DuCharme. Edited by Robert Zimet.
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