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Transcript: Sen. Tom Cotton on “Face the Nation,” May 12, 2024
The following is a transcript of an interview with Sen. Tom Cotton, Republican of Arkansas, that aired on May 12, 2024.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we’re back now with Arkansas Republican Senator Tom Cotton. Senator, welcome back to the program.
SEN. TOM COTTON (R-AR): Thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You just heard Secretary Blinken explain the administration’s policy. He says Hamas absolutely does not abide by international law, Israel is inconsistent with international humanitarian law. But he stopped short of saying they’re violating weapons sharing agreements. Does this make sense to you?
SEN. COTTON: No, it doesn’t make any sense at all, Margaret, it sounds like a bunch of weaselly, mealy-mouthed politics. He said it’s “reasonable to assess”, he said that like three or four times, it’s like he was coached to say that, as if it was some magic talisman to help them walk the political line they want between the pro-Hamas wing of their party and the vast pro-Israel majority of the American people. The report that they put out Friday night, after news deadlines passed, was very clear. There is no evidence that Israel is violating international law. All civilian casualties in Gaza are solely the responsibility of Hamas. In fact, Israel’s probably doing more than any military in history to avoid civilian casualties.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, actually, it says, the U.S. intelligence community notes security forces in Israel “have inflicted harm on civilians in military or security operations potentially using U.S. provided equipment.” U.S. assesses Israel “could do more to avoid civilian harm”. But it doesn’t say they’re not doing it. It says they can’t for some reason, come to a clear conclusion–
SEN. COTTON: It says- Secretary Blinken’s own- no, Secretary Blinken’s own report says there’s no evidence, that they can’t reach that conclusion. Ben Cardin, the senior Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, agrees that the report says there is no evidence. In fact, he also says that Joe Biden was wrong to impose this de facto arms embargo on Israel. Again, Israel is doing more than any military in history, in all likelihood, to prevent civilian casualties. If Hamas did not hide behind and under civilians, there would no- there would not be civilian casualties. For that matter, if Hamas simply surrendered and turned over all these hostages, there would be no more civilian suffering in Gaza.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Which is what President Biden says as well. But I mean, I know you’re a lawyer, you went to Harvard Law, you were an army officer, you deployed to Iraq, you deployed to Afghanistan. It has to trouble you when the Israeli Prime Minister says himself that they killed more civilians than terrorists. Thousands more civilians than terrorists.
SEN. COTTON: It troubles me deeply that Hamas is using those civilians as human shields, because that is their strategy. Remember, Margaret, remember–
MARGARET BRENNAN: So should U.S.- but- but to that point, though, because the United States provides billions of dollars in weapons to Israel, should it have a say in how those weapons are used? Because the- the needle Blinken seemed to be trying to thread here was to say it was very specifically tailored in terms of withholding these large bombs, the 3500 bombs.
SEN. COTTON: Well, the reason Israel needs these larger bombs is because Hamas has buried tunnels, or they’re holding hostages, and where its leaders are holed up, deeply underground. They’re also potentially delaying the kits that allow the so-called dumb bombs to become smart precision bombs.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The JDAM kits that they’re reviewing.
SEN. COTTON: And- and apparently- and apparently based on reports this morning, the administration even says they’re withholding intelligence about the location of senior Hamas leaders and therefore, hostages, to include potentially American hostages, from Israel, to try to force Israel not to go into Rafah. Think about that, they’re–
MARGARET BRENNAN: The White House denies that, and John Kirby briefed the other day that the U.S. is sharing intelligence, including the location of Yahya Sinwar, who has not been killed in the seven months of this war.
SEN. COTTON: It was in the Washington Post with- with four officials familiar with it. The Washington Post is like the message board for this administration and the Democratic Party.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You believe that the intelligence community is withholding information from the Israeli military?
(CROSSTALK)
SEN. COTTON: I- I believe- I believe that Joe Biden is willing to do that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you have any evidence of that?
SEN. COTTON: I mean, he’s imposed- he’s imposed a de facto arms embargo on Israel and sanctions on Israelis. In the meantime–
MARGARET BRENNAN: They’re sending weapons this weekend, that’s not an arms embargo.
SEN. COTTON: In the meantime- he just said last week that he’s not going to send offensive weapons. We have no idea what he’s going to withhold.
(END CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: He- that was, as- as we just exchanged with- with Secretary Blinken, not a very clear statement in that CNN interview. Democrats have said that. But what Blinken said there was it was just that one single shipment. You’re saying you do not believe the Secretary of State when he says that?
SEN. COTTON: Margaret, in March of 2022, Tony Blinken came on your show, this very show, and said the United States would be perfectly fine to see fighter jets sent to Ukraine. Joe Biden immediately reversed Tony Blinken’s statement on this show. So what Tony Blinken says on this show cannot be credited when Joe Biden is out there imposing a de facto arms embargo on Israel at the same time he’s letting arms embargoes on Iran expire.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You know, $26 billion in emergency funding was just approved by the President. And there is not an arms embargo on Israel and there is not a block on intelligence sharing with Israel. You know that.
SEN. COTTON: Joe Biden said last week that he’s going to stop supplying offensive weapons that can be used in an urban setting. That is the only setting–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –If they go into Rafah–
SEN. COTTON: –In Gaza. That- that is the only setting in Gaza. And they have to go into Rafah. It- Joe Biden’s position is de facto for Hamas victory at this point. Israel’s goal is to destroy Hamas, which committed the worst atrocity against Jews since World War II. Hamas’s goal is to survive. If they do- if Israel does not go into Rafah and destroy Hamas in Rafah, Hamas will survive.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, the Biden administration says they can go into Rafah, it’s how they do it. But I- I want to ask you more broadly because people like Senator Van Hollen, who is going to be on here, we’ll talk about the principle and the spirit and the meaning of U.S. law. And you know that past presidents have withheld military aid to Israel to force changes in behavior. President Reagan did that. President Bush did that. Why do you have a problem with President Biden doing it?
SEN. COTTON: Well- well first off, when he talked about the principle and the spirit of U.S. law, it sounds to me like they’re not talking about the letter of U.S. law, because Tony Blinken’s own report concluded they did not violate U.S. law. Ronald Reagan’s decision to pause the delivery of fighter jets in the 1980s was totally different from what happens here- what has happened here. Israel is fighting a war of survival against a terrorist group that committed the worst atrocity against Jews since World War II. In the 1980s, an Israeli ambassador had been targeted for assassination. Ronald Reagan knew that the pause of fighter jets would not interfere with Israel’s fighting because they had plenty of fighters. He did not pause munitions. Joe Biden is not sending munitions in the middle of a shooting war, that’s a war of survival. And look at the broader context. Israel knew that Ronald Reagan had its back in the region, he sank half of Iran’s navy. Joe Biden has consistently given Iran hundreds of billions of dollars of sanctions relief that exactly funded groups like Hamas and Hezbollah–
MARGARET BRENNAN: And you know that they dispute that and they are still sending weapons. But last month, Donald Trump told TIME Magazine, “Bibi Netanyahu rightfully has been criticized for what took place on October 7”. Do you agree with that assessment? Are you comfortable with any criticism of the Prime Minister?
SEN. COTTON: Well, I- I think Prime Minister Netanyahu and other senior Israeli leaders have acknowledged they have responsibility for the failures on October 7. And they’ve said, as is the Israeli custom, when this war is over, there’ll probably be a commission of inquiry to figure out exactly what went wrong to ensure it doesn’t happen again. But President Trump said just last night that he would absolutely provide Israel with the weapons they need to finish the job. This would have never happened on President Trump- Trump’s watch, it didn’t happen on his watch. And if he were president, this war would have probably already been over with much less civilian suffering in Gaza because he would have backed Israel to the hilt from the beginning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, that’s a debate on counterfactuals for another day, Senator, but it’s good to have you here in person. Thank you for your time. We’ll be right back.
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Biden to stress climate action in first visit by sitting U.S. president to Amazon Rainforest
Washington — President Biden is set to deliver remarks on climate conservation in Manaus, Brazil, on Sunday during a visit to the Amazon rainforest that marks the first such trip by any sitting U.S. president in history.
Mr. Biden has made addressing climate change a key part of his policy agenda, approving legislation that reduces emissions, while setting the country on a path toward a transition to green energy. With the visit Sunday, the president is set to highlight his commitment to combatting global deforestation and conserving forests as part of what the White House calls Mr. Biden’s “historic climate legacy.”
The president is set to announce during the visit that the U.S. has reached its goal of increasing its climate finance to over $11 billion a year, up from $1.5 billion when Mr. Biden took office. He will also designate Nov. 17 as International Conservation Day, while the administration announces new conservation efforts including $50 million for the Amazon Fund, among other initiatives.
Mr. Biden is set to meet local and Indigenous leaders, take an aerial tour of the Amazon rainforest and tour a local museum, before heading to Rio de Janeiro for the G20 summit with world leaders. The trip comes after the president has been attending the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation summit in Peru in recent days, where he met with his Chinese counterpart, Xi Jinping.
The historic visit comes as climate advocates have warned of the environmental consequences of President-elect Donald Trump’s plans to rollback the Biden administration’s efforts to combat climate change.
It took too long for Cher to get into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. “I thought, what do I have to do?” she said. “I’ve had number one records in all these decades. I had a song [“Believe”] that changed music forever. And so, what is it that I’ve gotta do?”
This year she finally made it. At her induction ceremony last month, she said, “It was easier getting divorced from two men than it was to get into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame!”
It also took forever for Cher to write her story. This week, “Cher: The Memoir – Part One” finally comes out. Asked what she wanted to say with the book, she replied, “In the beginning, I didn’t wanna say much. And then at some point, I just thought, Cher, do it or give the money back.“
HarperCollins
The book centers on her years with Sonny, and her itinerant childhood with a mother who married at least seven times. She writes of how she had to be a grownup from the beginning: “One time we were driving in the car and she said, ‘Cher, I don’t know how we’re gonna pay the rent. What do you think?’ And I was like, ‘Okay, how is this gonna work? How are we gonna do this?'”
In 1962, Cherilyn Sarkisian met Sonny Bono in a coffee shop. He was wearing a mohair suit and a mustard-colored shirt with a white collar. “I thought it was like when Tony met Maria,” she said. “Everybody disappeared, and it was just the two of us.”
But she said it was not love at first sight. “It was something,” Cher said. “I never felt it before.”
Sonny was 27, Cher was 16. “It wasn’t passionate; I just loved him,” she said.
What did she love about him? “How he was different than anyone else. And he made me laugh. And we had a dream.”
That dream came true. By the mid-1960s, Sonny & Cher had five songs in the top 50 at the same time. They had a #1 hit with “I Got You Babe.”
In the 1970s, on “The Sonny & Cher Comedy Hour,” they’d become America’s favorite couple, with their banter, their songs, and that Bob Mackie wardrobe: “And then, when they started to realize that people were tuning in because of what I was wearing, then they just gave us all the money we needed,” she said. “It was so much fun.”
But Sonny began to change. “He just started not to care,” Cher said.
About what? “About me.”
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He didn’t like her going out, or even talking with their band. But one member had his eye on her: A guitarist by the name of Bill. One night Cher met up with him. “We walked back to this place where the guys used to get high before the show. And then he kissed me, and it was like, Oh, my God.“
Somehow word got back to Sonny. “I don’t know if I can actually say what happened because it’s so personal, and it’s so … it’s embarrassing,” Cher said.
But it’s in the book: After Sonny asked her what she wanted to do, Cher writes: “I said, ‘I want to sleep with Bill.’ It all seems crazy now. I didn’t mean it, but I thought saying those words was the only way that he would let me go.”
“I thought if I do this, it’s over,” she said. “He’s not gonna be able to come back. We’re not gonna be able to be Sonny & Cher. I just wanna blow it up. But I didn’t know I wanted to blow it up until I was blowing it up.”
They offered her anything to keep up appearances: “Because everybody was afraid I was gonna blow up the show. They just said, ‘What do you want?’ And I said, ‘Well, I want my own place in Malibu. And I want $5,000 a month. Hello? And I want freedom.'”
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But Sonny & Cher kept up the façade for two more years, until Cher’s new boyfriend, record executive David Geffen, got a copy of her contract, and she learned the shocking truth: “Sonny owned 95 percent of the company and his lawyer owned five,” she said. “And it was called Cher Enterprises, but I own nothing! And we’d worked together for almost 12 years.”
She confronted Sonny: “I said, ‘When was the moment that you thought this would be a good idea?’ And he said, ‘I always knew you’d leave me.’ And I said, ‘That’s not a reason! Son, how could you do it? I was there by your side working, all those nights, all those days, through good, through bad.’ He didn’t have an answer.
“And we were still friends after that,” she said.
Even after Cher married Gregg Allman and was pregnant with their son, she rejoined Sonny for a revival of their TV show.
Mason asked, “Can you explain why it was that up on that stage all the other stuff seemed to go away?”
“Because we had fun with each other,” Cher replied. “And because on stage, there was no marriage. There was no discord. There was no word for our relationship. And you couldn’t cut it with a chainsaw.”
WATCH ANTHONY MASON’S EXTENDED INTERVIEW WITH CHER:
Cher would go on to win an Oscar, for “Moonstruck.” But that’s for part two of her memoir, which she still has to write.
As for her music, she says she’s got another album she wants to make. When? “After I get rid of this book!” she laughed. “Because talking is harder on your voice than singing. And I want to record an album, and 78 is not exactly a time in your life when you want to. I hope I’m Tony Bennett!”
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READ AN EXCERPT: “Cher: The Memoir – Part One”
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Story produced by Jay Kernis. Editor: Steven Tyler.
