CBS News
Transcript: Sen. Lindsey Graham on “Face the Nation,” June 9, 2024
The following is a transcript of an interview with Sen. Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina, on “Face the Nation” that aired on June 9, 2024.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We turn now to Republican Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina. He joins us from London. Good morning to you, Senator.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): Thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I know you were at those D-Day remembrances earlier in the week, and you met with President Zelensky as well. He has asked for more training for his forces, and for that to happen faster and inside of Ukraine. Do you support the U.S. doing that?
SEN. GRAHAM: Yes, I do support us training inside the country. You know, the delay in weapons because of House inaction, we did lose momentum. But from the very beginning, the Biden administration, they did not impose pre-invasion sanctions to deter Putin. They didn’t give weapons to Ukraine early on to deter Putin. And now we’ve got a chance to reset this war that they have the weapons. Here’s what he wanted most of all, for us to go after the Russian assets all over the world, take the money from the sovereign wealth funds of Russia and give it to Ukraine. There’s $300 billion sitting in Europe from Russian sovereign wealth, assets that we should seize and give to Ukraine. We have Russian money in America we should seize. We should make Russia a state sponsor of terrorism under U.S. law. When I suggested that to President Zelensky, he lit up like a Christmas tree. Making Russia a state sponsor of U.S.- state sponsor of terrorism under U.S. law would be a very big blow to Russia.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. I don’t know that the Biden administration would sign off on that, though, but in terms of what you just mentioned, with–
SEN. GRAHAM: They won’t.
MARGARET BRENNAN: –with the assets, President Biden did say this morning he had reached an agreement with President Macron of France on the use of profits from those frozen Russian assets to help Ukraine. I know the Europeans haven’t wanted to go ahead and seize assets because it would hurt their banks.
SEN. GRAHAM: Well, they- they want to use the interest to help people- either we’re going to help Ukraine or we’re not. It’s now time to give them the F-16s, let them fly the planes, long range artillery to hit targets inside of Russia. Go after Putin’s assets, wherever they’re at, all over the world. Go on the offensive. I think this summer, Ukraine will regain military momentum. Everything we’ve done with Ukraine has been slow. It’s been indecisive. But if we went after the assets that Putin has all over the world, take his money that’s stolen from the Russian people, and help the victims in Ukraine, I think it would do a lot to end this war.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Your Republican colleague, Senator Tommy Tuberville, just this past week, said on Steve Bannon’s show that Volodomyr Zelensky is a dictator and unconstitutional. And he said this about Vladimir Putin.
BEGIN SOUND ON TAPE
SEN. TOMMY TUBERVILLE (R-AL): He doesn’t want Ukraine. He doesn’t want Europe. Hell, he- he’s got enough land of his own. He just wants to make sure that he does not have United States weapons in Ukraine pointing at Moscow.
END SOUND ON TAPE
MARGARET BRENNAN: Those echo some Russian talking points. Senator, I- I wonder if those remarks from your fellow Senator represent the GOP?
SEN. GRAHAM: No, it represents him and him alone. If you spent 15 minutes studying Putin and what he wants, he wants to re- recreate the Russian Empire. He’s not going to stop in Ukraine. We celebrated the 80th anniversary of D-Day. It was a failure. It was the unnecessary war, described by Winston Churchill. We had a dozen chances to stop Hitler. It’s not about NATO. It’s not about American weapons in Ukraine. It’s about a megalomaniac wanting to create the Russian Empire by force of arms. If you don’t stop him, there goes Taiwan. So we’ve been slow as hell of helping Ukraine, but Senator Tuberville’s analysis really misses what Putin’s all about. He’s an outlier, I think, in the Republican Party. I like him personally. But what did Trump do to get the weapons flowing? He created a loan system. They’re sitting on 10 to $12 trillion of critical minerals in- in Ukraine. They could be the richest country in all of Europe. I don’t want to give that money and those assets to Putin to share with China. If we help Ukraine now, they can become the best business partner we ever dreamed of, that 10 to $12 trillion of critical mineral assets could be used by Ukraine and the West, not given to Putin and China. This is a very big deal how Ukraine ends. Let’s help them win a war we can’t afford to lose. Let’s find a solution to this war. But they’re sitting on a gold mine. To give Putin 10 or $12 trillion for critical minerals that he will share with China is ridiculous.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I- I want to get to the Middle East with you as well. Later today, Benny Gantz, one of the ministers in Prime Minister Netanyahu’s war cabinet, is expected to announce his resignation, which he has previously said would happen if he wasn’t handed a day after plan. The defense minister has also said there is no planning for the day after happening. Where is this headed?
SEN. GRAHAM: I think Mr. Gantz will withdraw from the war cabinet, but Bibi will still have a majority. I like Benny Gantz. Here’s what I found on my last trip to Israel just a few days ago. There’s universal opposition to creating a Palestinian state by all levels of Israeli society if it is seen as a reward for terrorism of October the 7. The day after plan, when Hamas is destroyed militarily, and they no longer can threaten Israel, needs to be a negotiation between Israel and Saudi Arabia and the UAE to come up with a plan for Gaza and the West Bank, to give- to give the Palestinians hope and a better life and secure Israel. That is the only plan I see working. You cannot occupy–Israel can’t, in my view–permanently, Gaza. That will be a disaster for Israel. So the hope for the day after–
MARGARET BRENNAN: But Prime Minister Netanyahu hasn’t said that clearly yet, that he would not seek to occupy–
SEN. GRAHAM: I just- he’s coming. He’s coming July the 24th. I’ve spent a lot of time with Bibi. He is right to want to make sure there will be no stop to this war until Hamas is destroyed militarily and cannot threaten another October 7. I’ve had very detailed discussions with the- with the Prime Minister and with the Crown Prince and this administration. I believe–
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to talk to you–
SEN. GRAHAM: -there will be forming in the next–
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to talk to you more about this–
SEN. GRAHAM: There- there will be a plan coming about.
MARGARET BRENNAN: All right, we have to talk more about this on the other side of the commercial break, though. So just give me a minute or two and we’ll be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to “Face The Nation.” We return to our conversation now with South Carolina Republican Senator Lindsey Graham. Senator, thank you for staying through the break for us. Before we went to it, you said, by July 24 when the Prime Minister of Israel is here in Washington to address the joint session of Congress, you do expect a plan for the day after. Do you expect, given the limited amount of time left, that there will be normalization with Saudi Arabia and Congress will be able to vote before the election?
SEN. GRAHAM: I think it’s still possible. But the administration has taken months to negotiate the defense agreement between Saudi Arabia and the United States, holding it over the- Israel’s head regarding Rafah. I think we’re almost there. One thing I got from this trip was that they still don’t have the weapons they need in Israel to finish off Hamas. So they’re going to be sending me a list of weapons that are being slow walked. So I’m going to bring that up. But yeah, I think we can still do this. July the 24th will be here before you know it, hopefully major military operations will be over against Hamas if we give Israel the weapons they need, and we can sit down and talk about a vision for Gaza and the West Bank that will give security to Israel, hope and prosperity for the Palestinian people, with Saudi Arabia and the UAE involved. So that is my hope, that is my belief, and I want to help where I can.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll see if that vote can be taken. But Sir, you just mentioned U.S. military aid. Our poll out today shows a majority of Americans, 61%, say the U.S. should not send Israel weapons. Six in 10 says Israel should stop or decrease its military actions in Gaza. Isn’t it time for this war to end now, given that the tide of public opinion is turning against Israel?
SEN. GRAHAM: I think it’d be the biggest mistake we could- I criticized Senator Tuberville for his view of Ukraine. Let me be straight with you. Hamas would kill everybody here if they could get here. Israel’s not our enemy–
MARGARET BRENNAN: They can’t.
SEN. GRAHAM: –they’re our ally. Well, they can’t, because they’re pinned down over there. I want them destroyed so they can never come back to hurt Israel or us. Hezbollah is alive and well. So to those Americans who believe pulling the plug on Israel now makes us safer, you missed a lot. Radical Islam wants to slit the throat of every Jewish person, and your throat too. So no, I want to give weapon- weapons they need. The administration’s withholding weapons. The- Trump was a great ally of Israel. If he wins this- this election, he’ll have another great ally. I appreciate what President Biden’s doing, but it’s all been so slow. So if you don’t- Iran, here’s the big takeaway from my trip. The IDF chief told me he’s never been more worried about a nuclear breakout regarding the Iranians than he is right now. He thinks we’ve lost deterrence. He’s asking for joint military operations with the United States to convince Iran not to dash toward a nuclear weapon. These are the most dangerous times since the ’30s. Don’t make the mistakes of the ’30s. Senator Tuberville said, give Putin what he wants. Well, that’s what we did in the ’30s. That didn’t work out. Pull the plug on Israel. That didn’t work in World War II. It’s not going to work now.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Very quickly, before I let you go, in this past year, the Biden administration deported, expelled or repatriated more than 740,000 people, which they say is more than any year since 2010. You this week said there need to be mass deportations. Aren’t those numbers mass deportations?
SEN. GRAHAM: Well look. They’ve had 10 million people coming to this country illegally. It’s the highest level of ill- illegal immigration in the last three years in the history of the country. We went from the lowest under Trump to the highest in recorded history. They’re never going to stop coming until–
MARGARET BRENNAN: During COVID.
SEN. GRAHAM: –they see people leaving. On day one- on day one, President Trump will deport people here legally by the tens of thousands. Then and only then will this stop, and Biden will never do that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, you also know that Congress would have to provide the resources to do that to Immigrations and Customs Enforcement, and they say they don’t have the manpower or the money to do any of that at that scale.
SEN. GRAHAM: Well, if- if Trump is president- if Trump is president, his top priority will- seal that border, deport here people illegally. We’re living on borrowed time when it comes to another 9/11. if you’re looking for somebody to fix a broken border and keep us safe, Donald Trump, I believe, is your best choice. And if you don’t believe that, after the last three years, you make- you’re making a big mistake.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator Graham, joining us from London today. Thank you for your time, Sir.
Roger Carstens, the Biden administration’s top official for freeing Americans held overseas, on Friday arrived in Damascus, Syria, for a high-risk mission: making the first known face-to-face contact with the caretaker government and asking for help finding missing American journalist Austin Tice.
Tice was kidnapped in Syria 12 years ago during the civil war and brutal reign of now-deposed Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad. For years, U.S. officials have said they do not know with certainty whether Tice is still alive, where he is being held or by whom.
The State Department’s top diplomat for the Middle East, Barbara Leaf, assistant secretary of state for Near Eastern Affairs, accompanied Carstens to Damascus as a gesture of broader outreach to Hay’at Tahrir al-Sham, known as HTS, the rebel group that recently overthrew Assad’s regime and is emerging as a leading power.
Near East Senior Adviser Daniel Rubinstein was also with the delegation. They are the first American diplomats to visit Damascus in over a decade, according to a State Department spokesperson.
They plan to meet with HTS representatives to discuss transition principles endorsed by the U.S. and regional partners in Aqaba, Jordan, the spokesperson said. Secretary of State Antony Blinken traveled to Aqaba last week to meet with Middle East leaders and discuss the situation in Syria.
While finding and freeing Tice and other American citizens who disappeared under the Assad regime is the ultimate goal, U.S. officials are downplaying expectations of a breakthrough on this trip. Multiple sources told CBS News that Carstens and Leaf’s intent is to convey U.S. interests to senior HTS leaders, and learn anything they can about Tice.
Rubinstein will lead the U.S. diplomacy in Syria, engaging directly with the Syrian people and key parties in Syria, the State Department spokesperson added.
Diplomatic outreach to HTS comes in a volatile, war-torn region at an uncertain moment. Two sources even compared the potential danger to the expeditionary diplomacy practiced by the late U.S. Ambassador Christopher Stevens, who led outreach to rebels in Benghazi, Libya, in 2012 and was killed in a terrorist attack on a U.S. diplomatic compound and intelligence post.
U.S. special operations forces known as JSOC provided security for the delegation as they traveled by vehicle across the Jordanian border and on the road to Damascus. The convoy was given assurances by HTS that it would be granted safe passage while in Syria, but there remains a threat of attacks by other terrorist groups, including ISIS.
CBS News withheld publication of this story for security concerns at the State Department’s request.
Sending high-level American diplomats to Damascus represents a significant step in reopening U.S.-Syria relations following the fall of the Assad regime less than two weeks ago. Operations at the U.S. embassy in Damascus have been suspended since 2012, shortly after the Assad regime brutally repressed an uprising that became a 14-year civil war and spawned 13 million Syrians to flee the country in one of the largest humanitarian disasters in the world.
The U.S. formally designated HTS, which had ties to al Qaeda, as a foreign terrorist organization in 2018. Its leader, Mohammed al Jolani, was designated as a terrorist by the US in 2013 and prior to that served time in a US prison in Iraq.
Since toppling Assad, HTS has publicly signaled interest in a new more moderate trajectory. Al Jolani even shed his nom de guerre and now uses his legal name, Ahmed al-Sharaa.
U.S. sanctions on HTS linked to those terrorist designations complicate outreach somewhat, but they haven’t prevented American officials from making direct contact with HTS at the direction of President Biden. Blinken recently confirmed that U.S. officials were in touch with HTS representatives prior to Carstens and Leaf’s visit.
“We’ve heard positive statements coming from Mr. Jolani, the leader of HTS,” Blinken told Bloomberg News on Thursday. “But what everyone is focused on is what’s actually happening on the ground, what are they doing? Are they working to build a transition in Syria that brings everyone in?”
In that same interview, Blinken also seemed to dangle the possibility that the U.S. could help lift sanctions on HTS and its leader imposed by the United Nations, if HTS builds what he called an inclusive nonsectarian government and eventually holds elections. The Biden administration is not expected to lift the U.S. terrorist designation before the end of the president’s term on January 20th.
Pentagon spokesperson Pat Ryder disclosed Thursday that the U.S. currently has approximately 2,000 US troops inside of Syria as part of the mission to defeat ISIS, a far higher number than the 900 troops the Biden administration had previously acknowledged. There are at least five U.S. military bases in the north and south of the country.
The Biden administration is concerned that thousands of ISIS prisoners held at a camp known as al-Hol could be freed. It is currently guarded by the Syrian Democratic forces, Kurdish allies of the U.S. who are wary of the newly-powerful HTS. The situation on the ground is rapidly changing since Russia and Iran withdrew military support from the Assad regime, which has reset the balance of power. Turkey, which has been a sometimes problematic U.S. ally, has been a conduit to HTS and is emerging as a power broker.
A high-risk mission like this is unusual for the typically risk averse Biden administration, which has exercised consistently restrained diplomacy. Blinken approved Carstens and Leaf’s trip and relevant congressional leaders were briefed on it days ago.
“I think it’s important to have direct communication, it’s important to speak as clearly as possible, to listen, to make sure that we understand as best we can where they’re going and where they want to go,” Blinken said Thursday.
At a news conference in Moscow Thursday, Russian President Vladimir Putin said he had not yet met with Assad, who fled to Russia when his regime fell earlier this month. Putin added that he would ask Assad about Austin Tice when they do meet.
Tice, a Marine Corps veteran, worked for multiple news organizations including CBS News.
Watch CBS News
Be the first to know
Get browser notifications for breaking news, live events, and exclusive reporting.
Watch CBS News
Be the first to know
Get browser notifications for breaking news, live events, and exclusive reporting.