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Vladimir Kara-Murza says he got warning during Russian prisoner swap | 60 Minutes
Vladimir Kara-Murza, a fierce critic of Vladimir Putin who was sentenced to 25 years in a Russian prison, was on his way to freedom after he was released during a prisoner swap when an FSB agent shared ominous parting advice.
“‘Be careful about what you eat. You know how these things happen,'” Kara-Murza said he was told.
Kara-Murza had already survived two poisonings — first in 2015 and then again in 2017. He was then arrested in 2022 and tried for treason last year after denouncing Putin’s war on Ukraine.
Kara-Murza knew the risks that come with speaking out against Putin, but he did it anyway.
“There are causes larger than ourselves. And to me, the cause of a free, peaceful, civilized and democratic Russia is certainly much larger than I could ever be,” he said.
Surviving poisonings
Kara-Murza had been high on Putin’s list since 2012, when he worked with the late Sen. John McCain on the so-called Magnitsky Act, a U.S. law named for a man murdered by prison guards. The Magnitsky Act allows for the seizure of the overseas assets of foreign officials who abuse human rights, and more than 60 people have been sanctioned.
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Kara-Murza says Kremlin assassins poisoned him in 2015 because of his work on the Magnitsky Act.
He was in a coma for about a month and suffered from multiple organ failure. Doctors in Moscow told his wife he had about a 5% chance of survival. As Kara-Murza was recovering, he had to learn how to walk and eat again.
“It’s amazing how fast the human body just loses everything, just loses all the strength and you just have to start anew,” he said.
Two years later, in 2017, he was poisoned again. This time, he went to the U.S., where his wife and three children live, to recover. Kara-Murza is a U.S. permanent resident.
But once he recovered, he returned to Russia.
“How could I not go back to Russia? I am a Russian politician. A politician has to be in their own country,” Kara-Murza said. “How could I call on my fellow citizens and my fellow Russians to stand up and oppose this dictatorship if I myself was too scared to do it? How is that possible?”
Kara-Murza continues speaking out as Putin cracks down
Kara-Murza says all of Putin’s opponents are either in exile, in prison, or dead.
Shortly after Russia launched its invasion of Ukraine in 2022, lawmakers passed a law imposing a 15-year prison sentence for those who criticize the war.
“We tried to warn the world. We tried to shout,” Kara-Murza said. “We tried to get the message out that this regime is dangerous, that this man is dangerous.”
After his treason conviction last year, Kara-Murza was hit with the longest sentence ever for a political prisoner. The judge in the case had been among the first Russian officials sanctioned under the Magnitsky Act.
Kara-Murza thought it was a “job well done” when he heard his sentence.
“I think that 25-year sentence was, frankly, a recognition that what we did over all those years mattered, that the Magnitsky Act mattered, that public opposition to the war in Ukraine mattered,” he said. “Yes, it means it was a job well done.”
Life behind bars and being freed
Kara-Murza spent two-and-a-half years imprisoned. He was sent to Siberia, and put in solitary confinement. He says he was only able to call his wife once and only allowed to speak with his children twice.
“And it was a 15-minute call, so five minutes per child,” he said. “And as my wife later told me, she was standing there with a stopwatch to make sure that each of our kids doesn’t get more than five minutes so that everybody could have an opportunity to speak with dad.”
He thought he would never get out, so he views what happened on Aug. 1 as a miracle.
“A large group of officers burst into my cell. I have no idea what’s happening. It’s the middle of the night. It’s dark,” Kara-Murza said. “And they tell me I have 10 minutes to get up and get ready. And at this moment, I’m absolutely certain that I’m gonna be led out and be executed.”
Instead, he was one of eight Russian dissidents released, along with several Germans and three Americans, in exchange for eight Russian criminals and spies. It was the largest prisoner exchange since the Cold War. President Biden’s administration, along with officials in several other countries, had spent months negotiating the prisoner swap.
After he stepped off a plane in Turkey, a diplomat from the American embassy came over and handed Kara-Murza a phone. President Biden was on the line, along with Kara-Murza’s family. They were calling from the Oval Office.
“It felt surreal, it felt more emotional than I had ever felt at any point in my life,” Kara-Murza said.
Continuing to speak out against Putin
60 Minutes correspondent Scott Pelley asked Kara-Murza if he thinks Putin will try to kill him.
“We know what it entails to be in opposition to Vladimir Putin,” Kara-Murza said. “He’s not just a dictator. He’s not just an authoritarian leader. He’s not just a strongman. He is a murderer. That man is a murderer.”
Kara-Murza, who remains in the U.S. with his family, shared his hopes that ordinary Russians standing up to Putin are remembered.
“I hope that when people in the West, that when people in the United States, when people in the free world at large think about Russia, they will remember not only the aggressors and the war criminals who are sitting in the Kremlin, but also those who are standing up to them,” he said. “Because we are Russians too.”
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The Biden administration is beginning to retaliate against China for its sweeping hack of U.S. telecommunications companies earlier this year.
Last week the Commerce Department issued a notice to China Telecom Americas, the U.S. subsidiary of one of China’s largest communications firms, alleging in a preliminary finding that its presence in American telecom networks and cloud services poses a national security risk. The company has 30 days to respond, although the Commerce Department has not said what action it plans to take next.
The New York Times was the first to report the action, which is a direct response to China’s infiltration of telecom networks earlier this year. The China-backed hacking group known as Salt Typhoon penetrated the networks of numerous companies including Verizon, AT&T and Lumen Technologies, a U.S. official familiar with the matter told to CBS News in October.
It’s unclear what the impact on China Telecom would be, since the FCC has already limited China Telecom Americas’ ability to operate in U.S. communications infrastructure. In October 2021, the FCC revoked its license to provide phone services in the US.
The FCC found that China Telecom “is subject to exploitation, influence, and control by the Chinese government and is highly likely to be forced to comply with Chinese government requests without sufficient legal procedures subject to independent judicial oversight.”
China Telecom Americas has not responded to requests for comment.
U.S. law enforcement and intelligence officials are continuing to try to learn more about the scope of the hack, which targeted U.S. surveillance capabilities used for operations including wiretaps. U.S. intelligence officials routinely seek court authorization to use telecom systems like those targeted in the breach to collect information for law enforcement or national security probes.
One fear is that the cyberattacks could have allowed the hackers to access information about ongoing U.S. investigations — including those tied to China — through the collection of sensitive data and techniques.
China’s incursions into U.S. critical infrastructure — including water treatment plants and the electrical grid — have lawmakers on Capitol Hill and the incoming Trump administration warning of a more aggressive retaliatory posture going forward.
Rep. Mike Waltz, designated by President-elect Trump to be national security adviser, told Margaret Brennan on “Face the Nation” Sunday, “We need to start going on offense and start imposing, I think, higher costs and consequences to private actors and nation state actors that continue to steal our data, that continue to spy on us.”
Last month, Rep. Jim Himes, Democrat of Connecticut and the ranking on the House Intelligence Committee, issued a similar warning.
“We’re not just going to name and shame,” he said on “Face the Nation.” “We are going to go into their networks and give as good as we got.”
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