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What Biden told then-special counsel Robert Hur in their 5-hour interview, according to the transcript
When then-special counsel Robert Hur released his February report on President Biden’s handling of classified material, Hur assessed that a jury wouldn’t be likely to convict Mr. Biden because he’d be seen as a “well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory.” That single line in the 345-page report delighted Republicans and infuriated the president and his allies, even though Hur cleared the president of criminal wrongdoing.
The transcript of Hur’s interview with Mr. Biden last October, reviewed by CBS News, provides a fuller picture of the five-hour conversation between the two and context around some of the statements that appeared in the report. It reflects a professional, polite and occasionally humorous mood in the room.
President Biden said he was largely unaware of how classified government records from his decades-long career in public office ended up in his homes and private office, according to the transcript.
In the interview, Hur commended Mr. Biden’s “significant cooperation” with the investigation and asked the president for his “best recollection in response” to questions. “I acknowledge that some of the questions we are asking relate to events that happened years ago,” Hur said.
“I’m a young man, so it’s not a problem,” Mr. Biden joked, according to the transcript.
Hur noted in his report that Mr. Biden, then 80, struggled to recall the date that his son Beau died of brain cancer. This angered the president, and in speaking with the press about Hur’s report soon after its release, Mr. Biden said, “How in the hell dare he raise that. Frankly, when I was asked the question, I thought to myself it wasn’t any of their damn business.”
The transcript of Hur’s interview with Mr. Biden shows the president unable to identify the precise year — but that he correctly named the month and date.
“What month did Beau die? Oh God — May 30th,” Mr. Biden asks the room.
A White House lawyer responds, “2015.”
“Was it 2015 he had died?” the president asks.
An unidentified person in the room replies, “It was May of 2015.”
Mr. Biden agrees. “It was 2015,” he said.
He also misstates the year former President Donald Trump was elected and questions which year his own vice presidency ended. Mr. Biden is quickly corrected by attorneys in the room. Throughout the interview, Mr. Biden appears to be reaching for words he cannot find. Twice, the phrase “fax machine” eludes him, and he confuses Iraq and Afghanistan for Iran.
The missteps appear to be common lapses for Mr. Biden who for years has struggled with names and dates in public speaking engagements.
Hur is scheduled to testify before the House Judiciary Committee on Tuesday. His role at the Justice Department ended once he filed his report in early February, which determined that “the evidence does not establish Mr. Biden’s guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.”
Mr. Biden told investigators he was uninvolved with the details and logistics of packing and moving his offices. That work was left almost entirely to staff, he said.
“I didn’t pay any attention to how they packed it up,” Mr. Biden told Hur about moving out of the Naval Observatory in early 2017. Mr. Biden added that he didn’t “have any idea” which files were in the West Wing office. “I let them decide where things would go.”
“My generic problem was there was a lot of stuff,” the president said.
Over two days in October last year, Mr. Biden and a team of lawyers sat for the interviews with special counsel Hur and his investigators in the White House Map Room. Hur led the questioning, probing the president on how his vice presidential residence and offices were packed in 2017 and how the material was transported and eventually stored at his homes in Virginia and Delaware.
Documents marked classified were found in Biden’s Wilmington, Delaware, garage and home office. Biden said some were dropped in his driveway after he moved out of his Virginia rental home and the Penn Biden Center office space in Washington, D.C.
Hur asked whether boxes shown in a photo of his garage corresponded to the boxes left in the driveway.
“I have no goddamn idea,” Biden said.
Mr. Biden joked with Hur about his habit of tossing decades’ worth of papers, photos and memorabilia in filing cabinets and never looking at them again.
Notebooks containing classified material were stashed haphazardly in his Wilmington home. “I wish I could say I was more organized,” Mr. Biden admits, but says he was unaware they contained anything restricted.
“If I had written notes in my book, they’re my notes and my property,” Mr. Biden told Hur. They are mine…and every president before me has done the same exact thing.”
The interview, conducted on Oct. 8 and 9, came immediately following the Hamas attack on Israel, which Hur acknowledged. “I know there are a lot of other things in the world going on that demand your attention,” Hur said.
Mr. Biden began the second day of the interview with a clarification of his comments from day one: “I didn’t keep anything that wasn’t — [that] I thought was classified.”
Hur asks Mr. Biden specifically about a statement he made to Mark Zwonitzer, the ghostwriter assisting with his memoir. Investigators recovered a recording of Mr. Biden telling Zwonitzer in 2017, he “just found all the classified stuff downstairs.”
Mr. Biden said he had no memory of that comment which was made in reference to a 2009 memo he had written to then-President Barack Obama regarding Afghanistan. An original copy of that memo, which contained classified information, was found in Mr. Biden’s garage.
“I had no purpose for [keeping classified documents], and I think it would be inappropriate for me to keep clearly classified documents….I had no authority to have them,” after leaving the vice presidency, Biden said, unaware that he had retained the handwritten memo.
The president, over the course of his interview, also goes on lengthy digressions about trips he’s taken abroad, a case he handled in private practice when he was just out of law school, electric cars and eulogies he’s delivered over the years. They are some of the same stories he tells on the stump.
During a tale about why he never seriously invested in the stock market as a senator, Biden replied, “The thing I valued most my whole life — my reputation and integrity.”
A passenger successfully landed a small plane on Friday after the pilot had a medical emergency, the Federal Aviation Administration said.
The twin-engine Beechcraft King Air 90 was traveling from Henderson Executive Airport in Las Vegas, Nevada to Monterey Regional Airport in California, with a pilot and one other person on board, the FAA said.
The pilot suffered an unspecified medical emergency while flying, the FAA said, forcing the passenger to take the controls and make an emergency landing at Meadows Field Airport in Bakersfield, California.
The Kern Fire Department told CBS News affiliate KBAX that firefighters were called to a report of a medical emergency on the plane. The pilot was reported to be “incapacitated,” the fire department said. Firefighters saw the plane approach and land safely, then “chased” the plane down the runway in emergency vehicles to meet it.
The FAA did not release the passenger or pilot’s identities nor give an update on the pilot’s condition. The pilot was taken to an area hospital by ambulance. The passenger did not report any injuries.
The FAA and the National Transportation Security Board will investigate the incident, the FAA said.
Congolese authorities began vaccination against mpox on Saturday, nearly two months after the disease outbreak that spread from Congo to several African countries and beyond was declared a global emergency by the World Health Organization.
The 265,000 doses donated to Congo by the European Union and the U.S. were rolled out in the eastern city of Goma in North Kivu province, where hospitals and health workers have been overstretched, struggling to contain the new and possibly more infectious strain of mpox.
Congo, with about 30,000 suspected mpox cases and 859 deaths, accounts for more than 80% of all the cases and 99% of all the deaths reported in Africa this year. All of the Central African nation’s 26 provinces have recorded mpox cases. Officials in Congo previously told CBS News that they’ve struggled to diagnose patients and provide basic care in the vast country of 100 million people, where a fragile, under-resourced healthcare system is also burdened by the stigma associated with the virus.
Although most mpox infections and deaths recorded in Congo are in children under age 15, the doses being administered are only meant for adults and will be given to at-risk populations and front-line workers, Health Minister Roger Kamba said this week.
“Strategies have been put in place by the services in order to vaccinate all targeted personnel,” Muboyayi ChikayaI, the minister’s chief of staff, said as he kicked off the vaccination.
Moses Sawasawa / AP
At least 3 million doses of the vaccine approved for use in children are expected from Japan in the coming days, Kamba said.
Mpox, also known as monkeypox, had been spreading mostly undetected for years in Africa before the disease prompted the 2022 global outbreak that saw wealthy countries quickly respond with vaccines from their stockpiles while Africa received only a few doses despite pleas from its governments.
However, unlike the global outbreak in 2022 that was overwhelmingly focused on gay and bisexual men, mpox in Africa is now being spread via sexual transmission as well as through close contact among children, pregnant women and other vulnerable groups, Dr. Dimie Ogoina, the chair of WHO’s mpox emergency committee, recently told reporters.
More than 34,000 suspected cases and 866 deaths from the virus have been recorded across 16 countries in Africa this year. That is a 200% increase compared to the same period last year, the Africa Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said.
A lack of diagnostic materials and basic medicines to treat the virus, which can improve survival rates, have also hampered efforts to contain the outbreak, and access to vaccines remains a challenge.
Moses Sawasawa / AP
The continent of 1.4 billion people has only secured a commitment for 5.9 million doses of mpox vaccines, expected to be available from October through December, Dr. Jean Kaseya, head of the Africa CDC, told reporters last week. Congo remains a priority, he said.
At the vaccination drive in Goma, Dr Jean Bruno Kibunda, the WHO representative, warned that North Kivu province is at a risk of a major outbreak due to the “promiscuity observed in the camps” for displaced people, as one of the world’s biggest humanitarian crisis caused by armed violence unfolds there.
The news of the vaccination program brought relief to many in Congo, especially in hospitals that had been struggling to manage the outbreak. Doctors with several charities working in the country have told CBS News they’re overstretched and short on supplies, even having to use tents and mattresses on the floor of makeshift isolation wards to treat a constant influx of patients.
“If everyone could be vaccinated, it would be even better to stop the spread of the disease,” said Dr. Musole Mulambamunva Robert, the medical director of Kavumu Hospital, one of the mpox treatment centers in eastern Congo.
Eastern Congo has been beset by conflict for years, with more than 100 armed groups vying for a foothold in the mineral-rich area near the border with Rwanda. Some have been accused of carrying out mass killings.
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