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Transcript: Dr. Deborah Birx on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,” Nov. 17, 2024
The following is a transcript of an interview with Dr. Deborah Birx, White House Coronavirus Response Coordinator in the first Trump administration, on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” that aired on Nov. 17, 2024.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Dr. Deborah Birx served as the White House Coronavirus Response Coordinator in Donald Trump’s first term. She also had a long career in public health in the army, working on AIDS in Africa, at the State Department, as well as time at the CDC. Good morning. Welcome back.
FORMER WHITE HOUSE COVID RESPONSE COORDINATOR DR. DEBORAH BIRX: Good morning, Margaret. Glad to be with you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So Dr. Birx, I want to ask you about your views on public health, which we’re looking at because of this nomination, potentially of Robert F Kennedy Jr. HHS has a wide portfolio here, vaccines, medicine, oversees Medicare, regulates food, beauty products, baby formula, reproductive health care. What would the impact be of having someone without government experience in that top job?
DR. BIRX: Well, I think the most important thing is what team he would bring with him, because you’re talking about really a large cap corporation with a highly diverse group, which you have to really bring together and, frankly, eliminate some of the duplication set between these agencies to really become more cost effective, and so really having a management person at his side, a chief of staff, perhaps that has really come out of industry that would know how to bring and look and bring those individuals together that are running the other agencies, because it’s a very comp- HHS is probably one of our most complicated departments.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So you’re saying people with experience around him, we need to look at those lower level appointees Mr. Trump might make. Well, what’s so interesting with RFK Jr. is how he has, in some ways, tapped into this health movement in America. He’s talking about more regulation, not less when it comes to American food, here’s some of what he said:
ROBERT F KENNEDY JR.: I’m just going to tell the- the cereal companies to take all the dyes out of their food. I’ll get processed food out of school lunch immediately. 10 percent of food stamps go to sugar drinks to, you know, sodas. We’re creating diabetes problem, and our kids are giving them food that’s poison, and I’m going to stop that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Those sound like good goals. Can you actually take on big agriculture and get that through?
DR. BIRX: I think because a lot of the people who are suffering the most from these additives are actually people in our rural areas. 16 percent of the Americans live in a rural area, but they are providing all of our oil and gas, all of our fiber, all of our cotton and all of our food. And the level of diabetes in these communities because of their access to certain foods is extraordinarily high. I just came out of the field, 58 percent of the adults in the town that I was just in had already diabetes or prediabetes, based on a household survey where we went house to house. This is the reality of America and so what I’m hoping is he brings his transparency for all Americans and we really start to tackle these issues one-by-one-by-one. I think everybody across America wants to have healthy kids that they know will grow up and not end up with the complications of diabetes or heart disease.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It was very hard for Michelle Obama, when she was first lady to get any of that done, and it might be hard for lawmakers who come from some of those agricultural states to vote against their own interests in terms of the farm subsidies and the like.
DR. BIRX: Well, we’re not talking about eliminating good food. We’re talking about using all of their ingredients in a way that is more healthy for Americans and I think that’s what people are calling for now. Europe did it years ago, and I think we’re capable of doing that. We are really smart, high levels of technology, we can make food tasty without a lot of these additives, because we can see that other groups are doing it in a small way. So we’re not talking about eliminating the need for wheats and grains. We’re talking about putting those together in a healthy way.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask you as well about some of his- the things he said about vaccines. As you know, the vaccine- vaccination rates are declining in America. He said things like restoring transparency around them. It’s not really clear what that means. Why do you think there’s a decline in vaccination?
DR. BIRX: I think there’s two pieces to it. I think when we talk about things in public health, we don’t acknowledge the concerns because when my children went to school, there was maybe one in 1000 kids with autism, diagnosed with autism. Now it’s three per 100. So every mom is seeing a classroom of kindergarteners where one of the children has autism. That’s scary to moms and dads, they want to know why. So it’s not good enough for us to just say vaccines don’t cause autism. It’s us finding what is the cause of autism and reverse it–
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, I think a lot of people would absolutely agree that it is ridiculous that there isn’t a lot of research and established causation for autism, but what he has said in the past is that autism is caused by vaccines and there’s no scientific basis for that conclusion as I understand it.
DR. BIRX: That’s correct. And so that’s why, when he talks about transparency, I’m actually excited that in a Senate hearing he would bring forward his data and the questions that come from the senators would bring forth their data. What I know for sure is he’s a very smart man who can bring his data and his evidence base forward, and we can have a discussion that many Americans believe already is a problem. So until we can have that transparency and that open discussion from both sides, I know the members have incredible staffers who will bring great questions from their constituents, and that hearing would be a way for Americans to really see the data that you’re talking about, that we can’t see that causation right now, but what is causing it? And so you’re absolutely right, addressing what the cause is will be critical and I think what has confused people is we weren’t clear about what COVID vaccines do and don’t. And so now people are questioning, well, what do my childhood vaccines do and don’t, and they don’t understand that some of the vaccines that their children are getting protect them from both disease and create herd immunity, and some of them that they get are just for their child, like H Flu and pneumovax to protect their child from getting very serious illness, and we’re just not explaining all of this correctly.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, and that’s why the messenger matters–
DR. BIRX: Yes, it does.
MARGARET BRENNAN: –so much on this, which is why his past statements are being scrutinized. You worked on AIDS for a good part of your career. He has said that he doesn’t take a position on the relationship between HIV and AIDS, but then he laid out alternative theories in his book, and said Dr. Fauci never produced a study to demonstrate his hypothesis using “accepted scientific proof.” Do you agree with that assertion, and HIV and AIDS?
DR. BIRX: Well, having spent a career in understanding how HIV and AIDS progresses, HIV virus is the cause of AIDS, there’s a whole set of things that happen, and I think what HIV taught me is you have to- it’s asymptomatic for 10 years, and we’re finally recognizing how important asymptomatic disease progression and disease transmission is. That’s what HIV taught us. But what other HIV taught us was the entire human immune system. So by investing in HIV research, we learned about CAR T-cells that we use today in cancer. So a lot of these research and investments pay off in other areas and I think once he’s there at HHS, he’ll see that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: If he’s open to the data. Dr. Birx, thank you. We’ll be right back.
In the final days of his administration, President Biden has set a new climate goal for slashing U.S. greenhouse gas emissions. However, it comes as his successor, President-elect Donald Trump, has signaled he is not interested in global climate negotiations.
The U.S. formally submitted its new goal Thursday to the United Nations. It calls for a 61% to 66% reduction in net greenhouse gas emissions by 2035 compared to 2005 levels, the White House said, with an overarching goal of achieving net zero emissions by no later than 2050.
The new goal is part of the Paris Agreement, under which member nations must update their emission cut targets — known as Nationally Determined Contributions, or NDCs — every five years.
The Paris accord requires countries to set voluntary targets for reducing greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide. The only binding requirement is that nations accurately report on their efforts. First signed in 2016 by nearly 200 nations, it seeks to limit global warming to no more than 1.5 degrees Celsius above pre-industrial levels.
The new climate commitment “marks an ambitious capstone to President Biden’s climate legacy,” the White House said in a news release, adding that it will help grow a new clean energy economy focused on investment, innovation, and jobs.
“The United States’ new climate commitment offers a clear path forward for states, cities, businesses, and other leaders dedicated to ramping up action over the next four years,” said Debbie Weyl, U.S. acting director for the nonprofit environmental group the World Resource Institute, in a statement. “Even though the Trump administration may not lift a finger to deliver on this plan, it sets a north star for what the U.S. should be aiming for and could help guide the federal government’s priorities once Trump leaves office in 2029,” Weyl said.
In 2017, then-President Trump announced he was withdrawing the U.S. from the Paris Agreement, a process which took until nearly the end of his first term to complete. However, Mr. Biden fulfilled a campaign vow by rejoining the Paris Agreement on the first day of his own administration in early 2021.
Trump has long championed the fossil fuel industry, questioned the science of climate change and weakened other environmental protections.
This year, his campaign said Trump would pull the U.S. from the Paris Agreement a second time.
Last month in Azerbaijan at the annual United Nations climate summit known as COP29, participants adopted a $300 billion annual deal that will go towards helping developing countries wean themselves off coal, oil and gas, and help them adapt to future warming and pay for the damage caused by climate change’s extreme weather.
Mary Cunningham and
contributed to this report.
A judge in France on Thursday found the former husband of Gisèle Pelicot, who admitted to drugging and raping her repeatedly over the course of almost a decade and inviting dozens of other men to assault her as well, guilty of aggravated rape. Over the course of her trial, Pelicot — who insisted her full name be published and proceedings be made public — has been praised for her courage and become a symbol of the fight against sexual violence in France and around the world. The judge on Thursday was reading out verdicts for dozens of other men also accused of raping her.
Pelicot arrived Thursday at the court in Avignon, southeast France, where crowds had gathered outside holding signs saying: “Thank you for your courage.”
The trial began on Sept. 2, and almost every day, Pelicot came face to face with her former husband, Dominique, or one of the 49 other men charged with raping her. One other man faced a charge of aggravated sexual assault. She insisted that videos submitted as evidence, made by her ex-husband showing men sexually assaulting her while she appeared to be unconscious, be shown in open court.
The assaults took place between 2011 and 2020, when Dominique Pelicot was taken into custody. Police found thousands of photos and videos of the abuse on his computer drives, which helped lead them to other suspects. Some of the men testified they thought the unconscious woman was OK with it, or that her husband’s permission was enough.
“Gisèle Pelicot thinks that this shock wave is necessary, so that no one can say after this: ‘I didn’t know this was rape,'” her attorney, Stéphane Babonneau, told The Associated Press.
“It’s not for us to feel shame — it’s for them,” Pelicot said in court, referring to the attackers. “Above all, I’m expressing my will and determination to change this society.”
Controversial French laws
Pelicot’s case triggered protests across France, and there was hope among some demonstrators that the case could lead to changes in controversial French laws governing sexual consent.
France introduced a legal age of sexual consent in 2021 after a public outcry over the rape of an 11-year-old schoolgirl by a man who was initially convicted on a lesser charge. Since then, sex with anyone under the age of 15 has been viewed as non-consensual, but French law does not refer to consent in cases involving older victims.
Under French law, rape is defined as penetration or oral sex using “violence, coercion, threat or surprise,” without taking consent into account, according to the Reuters news agency. Prosecutors must, therefore, prove an intention to rape if they are to be successful in court, legal experts told Reuters.
Just 14% of rape accusations in France lead to formal investigations, according to a study by the Institute of Public Policies.
“Why don’t we manage to obtain convictions? The first reason is the law,” legal expert Catherine Le Magueresse told Reuters. “The law is written in such a way that victims must comply with the stereotype of a ‘good victim’ and a ‘true rape’: an unknown attacker, use of violence, and the victim’s resistance. But it is only true for a minority of rapes.”
“I’m trying to understand”
Speaking in court during the trial, Pelicot, who is 72, talked about how she had thought she was in a loving marriage with her husband and would never have guessed that he was drugging her.
“We would have a glass of white wine together. I never found anything strange about my potatoes,” Pelicot told the court.
“We finished eating. Often when it’s a football match on TV, I’d let him watch it alone. He brought my ice cream to my bed, where I was. My favorite flavor — raspberry — and I thought: ‘How lucky I am. He’s a love.'”
She said she didn’t have any sensation of being drugged.
“I never felt my heart flutter. I didn’t feel anything. I must have gone under very quickly. I would wake up with my pajamas on,” Pelicot told the court, adding that she would sometimes wake up “more tired than usual, but I walk a lot and thought it was that.”
“I’m trying to understand,” she said, “how this husband, who was the perfect man, could have got to this.”
The International Brotherhood of Teamsters says workers at seven Amazon facilities will begin a strike Thursday morning in an effort by the union to pressure the e-commerce giant for a labor agreement during a key shopping period.
The Teamsters say the workers, who authorized walkouts in the past few days, are joining the picket line after Amazon ignored a Dec. 15 deadline the union set for contract negotiations. Amazon says it doesn’t expect any impact on its operations during what the union calls the largest strike against the company in U.S. history.
The Teamsters say they represent nearly 10,000 workers at 10 Amazon facilities, a small portion of the 1.5 million people Amazon employs in its warehouses and corporate offices.
Amazon is ranked No. 2 on the Fortune 500 list of the nation’s largest companies.
At a warehouse in the New York City borough of Staten Island, thousands of workers who voted for the Amazon Labor Union in 2022 and have since affiliated with the Teamsters. At the other facilities, employees – including many delivery drivers – have unionized with them by demonstrating majority support but without holding government-administered elections.
The strikes happening Thursday are taking place at an Amazon warehouse in San Francisco and six delivery stations in southern California, New York City, Atlanta and the Chicago suburb of Skokie, Illinois, according to the union’s announcement. Amazon workers at the other facilities are “prepared to join” them, the union said.
“Amazon is pushing its workers closer to the picket line by failing to show them the respect they have earned,” Teamsters General President Sean M. O’Brien said in a statement.
“If your package is delayed during the holidays, you can blame Amazon’s insatiable greed. We gave Amazon a clear deadline to come to the table and do right by our members. They ignored it,” he said.
The Seattle-based online retailer has been seeking to re-do the election that led to the union victory at the warehouse on Staten Island, which the Teamsters now represent. In the process, the company has filed a lawsuit challenging the constitutionality of the National Labor Relations Board.
Meanwhile, Amazon says the delivery drivers, which the Teamsters have organized for more than a year, aren’t its employees. Under its business model, the drivers work for third-party businesses, called Delivery Service Partners, who drop off millions of packages to customers everyday.
“For more than a year now, the Teamsters have continued to intentionally mislead the public – claiming that they represent ‘thousands of Amazon employees and drivers’. They don’t, and this is another attempt to push a false narrative,” Amazon spokesperson Kelly Nantel said in a statement. “The truth is that the Teamsters have actively threatened, intimidated, and attempted to coerce Amazon employees and third-party drivers to join them, which is illegal and is the subject of multiple pending unfair labor practice charges against the union.“
The Teamsters have argued Amazon essentially controls everything the drivers do and should be classified as an employer.
Some U.S. labor regulators have sided with the union in filings made before the NLRB. In September, Amazon boosted pay for the drivers amid the growing pressure.
